I am writing down this article due to for almost one and half year Ali Sina* has not answered my last response in my discussion (debate) with him. It means he had to admit defeat on the debate and he should do all what he promised that he “will drop all the charges and even accept Islam”. After asking him many times seems that he has no good intention, he would not act on his promised. I am sorry to say that Ali Sina is the biggest liar and the biggest hypocrite in the world of this decade. Actually I do not like to publish any discussion about the nature of religion. It should do face by face to get a deep understanding and in order to get an affection (known as “sillaturrahim” in Islam). Since Ali Sina has made a commotion in the world with his great conceit, what I can say is that I should do something to make it fair. Even though I really know that I must edify myself and my own family before improve others.
This real story starts from someone named Malala Yousef sent me an email with the title “Sina’s Challenge”. Later I knew that this challenge was taken from one of Ali Sina’s articles in his blog. It was translated into Indonesia language when Yousef sent to my email. Before I have a time to make a copy from http://www.alisina.org (for http://www.faithfreedom.org is banned by my government), after discussed with Ali Sina on the below, about 2 weeks after he published my last response in http://www.alisina.org, without answered me, he suddently apologized to me that his blog was hacked by someone. Besides, he told me that all my correspondences with him were lost. Frankly, it was a very dark reason in stopping the debate for a doctoral scholar like him who looks very whiz.
I have requested Mr. Sina through an email to send the original English version of the Sina’s Challenge but for a along time he did not answered my email. So I have tried to retranslate the Sina’s Challenge from Indonesia language version to the English language as is following:
I receive many mails from angry Muslims who sometimes beg me and sometimes order me to remove this site. I consider both, pleading and bullying, signs of psychopathology. Argumentum ad baculum and argumentum ad misericordiam are both logical fallacies.
None of that has any effect on me. I consider both pleading and bullying, the signs of psychopathology, which stem from a variety of personality disorders affecting the followers of Muhammad. If you do not like this site and want me to remove it, instead of acting as a bully or as a victim, i invite you to disprove my charges against Muhammad and Islam logically. If you can show that what I say was wrong and Islam is a true religion, I promise not only to remove this site, I will publicly announce that Islam is a true religion. I will also pay
$50,000 U.S. dollars
to anyone who can disprove any of the dozen of the accusations that I have made against Muhammad. I accuse Muhammad of being:
I accuse Muhammad of being:
a pedophile (had sex with a child)
a mass murderer
a ruthless torturer
a terrorist (I have been made victorious through terror)
a thief and plunderer
a cult leader
a mentally deranged
[These allegations are all arranged neatly in my book: the book-ali-sina- “Understanding Muhammad: A Psychobiography”]
I have debated many Muslims, All they said can be summarized as:
a- Denial of the authenticity of the Islamic sources that report the stories of crimes of Muhammad (example: debate with Edip Yukssel, the head of the Submitters)
b- Moral relativism and situational ethics, i.e. “In those days, pedophilia, assassination, rape, theft, massacre and lying, were common practice, so Muhammad is innocent because he did what everyone else did.” Muslims even go as far as to question the legitimacy of the Golden Rule to claim we do not have any bases to condemn Muhammad. In other words evil can be good and vice versa (example: debate with Yamin Zakaria)
These are the only two arguments that Muslims present. I am sorry but any rational person can see these are logical fallacies. Read these two debates. If all you want to do is to rehash the same logical fallacies, don’t waste your time, as you can see I have already responded to these arguments.
These charges have no answer. You simply cant disprove them because they are reported in Islamic sources and as such they are considered confessions. You can’t acquit a criminal after he has confessed, unless you plead insanity, which is my point. That is why I offered $50,000 as the reward to anyone who can disprove those charges. If I had any doubts, I would not have risked my money and also would not have dared to oppose a sadistic deity like Allah who likes to burn humans for eternity for disbelieving in him. I know for certainty that Muslims have no answer, Muhammad was a liar and his Allah is fabricated by him. These I have proven exhaustively.
Muslims often ask: “Who will judge whether or not an attempt to disprove your accusations against Muhammad and Islam, was successful?” It is easy, the reader is the judge (the Jury).
My debates with Muslims are published in my website for the world to see. I suggest my opponent also to publish in their Islam website. But please note that i will not do any face to face debate. All debates shall be conducted in a writing.
To read my charges in more detail read my debate with Mr. Shahzad. I have to add that Mr. Shahzad was a rare Muslim who intelligently argued his case and never descended to logical fallacies or insults. I did not manage to convince him to leave Islam but he earned my utmost respect.
I had debated with experts, such as academics Pakistan, Javed Ahmed Ghamididan his student, Dr. Khalid Zaheer. These debates shall be read and an English version in 276 pages can be downloaded. Dr. Zaheer is educated, moderate Muslims and gentlemen.
As of this date (2007), I will no longer debate with people who want to debate anonymously. I only debate with reputable scholars. I made this decision because often, Muslims move by their faith and zealotry, but with little knowledge of Islam, challenge me to debate. They repeated the same methods that have been frequently denied and they suddenly disappeared. Then there are also Muslims who accuse me of falsifying debate or underestimate my opponents because it is not an Islamic scholar.
As of this day, i am also doubling the reward. If you arenot a reputable scholars, you can still win the prize. Al you have to do is persuade a Islamic scholar to debate with me. If s/he disproves my charges or can prove that Muhammad was a prophet of God, both you and s/he will be rewarded $50.000 each. This is to encourage you to write to your admired scholar and convince them that Islam is in danger and that it is their duty to defend it. Once you write to invite some one, please CC a copy to us for announcing the invitation. Our email is faith email@example.com.
Yes, Islam is in grave danger. Never, since its inception, Islam has faced a threat as serious as this. Today, millions of ex-Muslims are questioning the claimed truth of Islam, can make their critisisms heard worlwide, and unlike before, not fear for their lives.
As long as these questions are not answered, this trend is only bound to continue, until the trickle becomes a torrent and the fall of Islam becomes obvious. In the past, the critics of Islam briefly shined like lamps in the darkness, only to be put out by winds of persecution. What is happening today can likened to the break of the dawn. Darkness has no chance in front of this much light. Muslims are waking up and leaving Islam like never before. A spritul and intellectual revolution is underway. This is the century of enlightenment of the benighted Muslims. The giant is finally awakening. The days of Islam are numbered. This demond of hate of ignorance will be slain by the hands of its own primary victims.
Please advertise this challenge. Every Muslims must see it. This is like throwing water on their fire. Nothing will dampen their zeal more than the realization that among a billion Muslims there is not a single scholar who can prove the wild claims of Muhammad, nor acquit him of these grave charges. This unmet challenge has a sobering effect on them. They can make any excuse, such as, I’m not worth their response, that there have been greater men than me who opposed Islam, or that i have been refuted already, but they will not be able to fool themselves. The more this challenge is circulated, the Muslims will be forced to remain silent and doubt Islam. Dont under-estimate the psychological effect of this impossible challenge.
Let see my debate with Ali Sina on the below. Hoping that we all can take a consideration on the truth of Islam;
ANSHAR RAHMAN 1):
October 28, 2014
Dear Mr.Ali Sina,
Reading your so many provocations, looks like you are in the big dream to make all Muslims murtad (apostate) from their Islam. Actually you are not wrong but only untrue view point. your logic is not match with the real truth. Dominant Muslims communities in the world also seems do not understand about the real truth of Islam. They have been loosing for a long time. You are one of them that miss understanding about the Islam and Muhammad SAW.
There is only a little bit who claimed theirselves as Muslims in this end of this decade, really reached the essence of Islam. So i would like to challenge you but unfortunately my English is not so good. So can we conduct the debate in Indonesia Language.
I also need a witness from one Indonesian. Actually I am not interested with the US$ 50.000 but i think you should pay the amount if you and the witness person can not answered my last question. What my last question in the last debate? This is my question: Do you realize that you are in the wrong perception on Islam and Muhammad SAW? So please be ready Mr. Ali Sina.
ALI SINA 1):
Dear Mr. Anshar,
Yes I am ready to debate you. My goal is not to win the debate but to unveil the truth. That is the real victory. Winning the debate is like winning the battle, unveiling the truth is winning the war. I would rather lose the battle and win the war. If Islam is true and you can prove it, I would be more than grateful to you for showing it to me, and since I have been instrumental in leading thousands of Muslims out of Islam, I am sure a good number of them will start rethinking and reconsidering their apostasy.
Your English is quite good. We can also find an Indonesian to polish it. Actually we can conduct this debate in both languages. We can ask someone to translate your Indonesian into English and my English into Indonesian, so we can publish it in both languages. As for your suggestion to have a witness I don’t understand you. We will publish our debates in our respective sites and thousands of people who read it they will be our witness.
Wish you blessings
ANSHAR RAHMAN 2):
October 28, 2014
Let change the name of this conversation, i prefer to call it as “Discussion of a truth” rather than a Debate. I do not have an intention to win a battle and or to win a war but actually i just want to ask my brother to realize and weak up from his conceit. The conceit is one of our common enemy. Muhammad SAW said “Please do not use an arrogance because the arrogance is the God’s shawl.” Actually, you are one of my very close brother that loosing in earthly life. Later on, i will explain to you why i called you as my very close brother (myveclob). That is why, I asked you to pay the price of your haughty challenge that you promised to pay about US$ 50.000 if anyone can prove that your perception about Islam and Muhammad is untrue view.
I would like to give you an opportunity to cancel this promise of payment. So i will forget it totally because i am not interested with the money. I am worrying that you are just bluffing me and tricking others that actually you do not have the amount of the money. Please tell me if you want to change your mind on this kind of real vanity from you.
For the next step I would like to submit some questions and please answer the questions. Beside that please give your comment that you think these subjects are evidences and explanations of the wrong of Islam and Muhammad SAW from your point of view. However, do you have any proposal of the method of our discussion? or do you agree with this? Please feel free to tell me your direction, since you are myveclob.
Please forgive me if any mistake and offend you in the sentences of the above. Actually the brotherhood in Islam prohibit hurting each other. “One brother you hurting is same thing that you hurting all humankind in the world.”
ALI SINA 2):
Dear Mr. Anshar Rahman,
You can call it whatever you like. As for the reward, that is also fine if you don’t want it. The reward is still on the table for others. And yes I use it as an incentive for Muslims to debate me. Whenever a Muslim asks a scholar to answer my charges, he’s either ignored or is told I am not worth his time. So this offer is to pay for their time.
I can already point out to two errors you committed. You have a romanticize slam an attribute to it values that it does not have.
You called me a brother. Although I am flattered, this is not how a Muslim should think of a non-Muslim let alone an apostate. Muhammad said, only Muslims are brothers to each other. In regards to non-believers he said, don’t take them as friends (awlia) they are friends of each other. “Whoever does this” the Quran 2:28 says “has no connection with Allah.” The same verse however allows Muslims to befriend non-Muslims only if they want to deceive them. Since I hope you don’t want to deceive me, your expression of friendship towards me is not supported by your holy book.
The Quran 4:76 says that those who believe do battle for the cause of Allah and those who disbelieve do battle for the cause of idols. So fight the friends of Shaytaan.”
This is not only a defamation it is a call to war. I do believe in God but not in Allah as based on my understanding Allah is the Devil. Even though I think Muslims are Devil worshipers my God does not ask me to battle them and kill them as Allah requires it from Muslims. This alone is evidence that Allah is not God.
Muhammad had no tolerance for criticism and since he did not have any answer he called his detractors will all sorts of derogatory names, blind, deaf, dumb, sedition makers, etc., and instructed his followers to fight anyone one who opposes him. (Q. 2:193)
Also your claim that Islam prohibits hurting and the statement that “One brother you hurting is same thing that you hurting all humankind in the world,” is also false. This goes against everything Muhammad did and said. He did raid and kill unarmed people for the mere reason that they were not his followers. The verse you quoted does not exist in the Quran.
You are alluding to verse 5:32 that says “We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land – it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one – it is as if he had saved mankind entirely.”
In the sura Maida Muhammad is rehashing the Biblical tale of Abel and Cain, the sons of Adam. The story is taken from Talmud, which Muhammad erroneously thinks is the word of God. Here is what the original passage says.
For this reason was man created alone, to teach thee that whosever destroys a single soul of Israel [of Israel is absent in some texts], scripture imputes (guilt) to him as though he had Destroyed a Complete World; and whosever preserves a single soul of Israel, scripture ascribes (merit) to him as though he had Preserved a Complete World [since all mankind originated from one man]. – Babylonian Talmud, Mishnah Sanhedrin 37a
It is a deception and a lie to claim this passage is from Muhammad and that with it Muhammad prohibited killing. If this were so then he was the first to violate this dictum. He killed thousands of people.
As for how to proceed, how about you tell us why we should believe in the claim of Muhammad. You say he was a messenger of God. Is there any proof for such an outlandish claim? If you can give any irrefutable evidence I will drop all the charges and even accept Islam.
Wish you blessings
ANSHAR RAHMAN 3):
October 29, 2014
Dear Mr. Ali Sina,
You are really a great fighter my brother, You have fired me faster than i expected. I like your sentence: “I will drop all the charges and even accept Islam.”. Inshaa Allah you will accept the Islam trough my hand.
Before i answered your imputation and judgment about some verses in Al Qur’an, I would like to ask your view about sura Al Baqarah verse 2:2 and what your view especially on word ذَٰلِكَ الْكِتَابُ (the book, the note) and what do you think verse 2:3 and especially word الَّذِينَ يُؤْمِنُونَ. Could you please tell me which mean and what are the appointed objects of these words. This is to know your perception before we have more discussion.
ALI SINA 3):
Dear Mr. Anshar Rahman,
The Quran is an unorganized collection of the sayings of an illiterate and ignorant man. Muhammad, based on my research into his psychology, was a narcissist. He was delusional and convinced of his superiority. The evidence is in the first verse of the sura Baqara.
His illiteracy is evident by his lack of understanding of how to use demonstrative Pronouns. He said
“That is a book; with no doubt in it; a guidance for the righteous,”
What book was he talking about? If the Quran, he should have said, “This book.” The translators have changed “that” to “this” as they saw Muhammad’s error.
The second phrase of this verse reveals his narcissism. He said there is no doubt in it. Billions of people doubt the claims made in the Quran and that is why they are not Muslim. So this pompous claim is a lie. He should have said those who believe in it don’t doubt it. Then this can be said about any book.
The last part of the verse says, “It is guidance for the righteous.” The righteous is already guided. It is the sinner that needs to be guided. So by its own admission the Quran is superfluous.
In one short verse that consists of seven Arabic words there are three grammatical and logical errors. Can a book so poorly written be from God?
Now I repeat my request that you please give us the proof of the claim of Muhammad to be a prophet of God. I have studied the Quran and countless books written by Muslim scholars and none has even tried to present the proof. There are thousands of books on Islam and not one paragraph is written to prove Muhammad’s claim. Can you please tell us why should we accept Muhammad’s claim? How do we know he was not a liar?
To make thing easy for you, let me make the example of Jesus. If I ask a Christian the same question about Jesus, he could say. Jesus lived a very simple life and then suffered crucifixion and a painful death, so obviously he did not claim to be the son of God for personal gain. He was sincere about his claim and therefore not a liar. Then I may say but he may have been mentally sick and therefore delusional. He would then ask me to show what Jesus said that sounds crazy. Well I can’t find any. He seems to have said things so profound and spiritually enlightening that I come to discover them only after years of research. So if he was not crazy and he was not a liar, the only alternative left is that he was whom he said he was.
When I use the same yardstick for Muhammad I see that he raided villages and towns, robbed the wealth of innocent people, enriched himself beyond measure and took their young and beautiful wives and raped them. So unlike Jesus, Muhammad did have a lot to gain and we cannot discard the possibility that he was a liar. Also when we read his book that he claimed is divine we find it is full of error and absurdities that only a very ignorant man could have said.
As for his sanity I have written a book about it. There is no point to repeat it here but my book makes a very compelling case that Muhammad may have suffered from a series of mental and personality disorders.
So Jesus was likely from God, since he was neither a liar nor crazy while Muhammad could not have been from God because he was both liar and crazy.
This debate will continue, unless Mr. Anshar Rahaman does not reply.
ANSHAR RAHMAN 4):
November 2, 2014
Dear Mr. Ali Sina,
Very good and very long explanation on my short question. This is show me that you really have studied on Islam but unfortunately in the wrong way.
I am so sorry could not respond you in a long explanation because today i have so many activities. Firstly, I just can tell you regarding the verse 2:2 that you responded with the below:
“That is a book; with no doubt in it; a guidance for the righteous,”
What book was he talking about? If the Quran, he should have said, “This book.” The translators have changed “that” to “this” as they could saw Muhammad’s elemental error.
My brother, you are exactly correct on this if Muhammad means the book is the physical of Quran. Most of Muslims in the world having perception that what Muhammad mentioned is the physical of Quran. Actually not that one. Please see the logical moment when Muhammad told this verse, did he hold a book of Quran at that time? More over the verse 2:2 had been mentioned by him at the first time. How come the book of Quran already appointed by him? The book of Quran printed when Utsman RA, one of his very close friend became a Khalifah (Government leader). It was a long time after Muhammad passed away. It means Muhammad never hold a Physical of Quran at that time. That was why Muhammad said “that book”. When you said “that” will make your forefinger appoint something. At that time Muhammad appointed a male chest of somebody who sitting in front of him and said “That is a book, with no doubt in it; a guidance for the righteous”….. My brother, inside of your chest there is a book, there is a note that has been recording everything for your entire life. You call it conscience. Do you have a doubt with your conscience? it will become a truth guidance when he sunken with Alif Lam Mim in verse 2:1.
So, you have one point now that you know you are in wrong perception on it. I can say that what you commented in your website and in our discussion almost all of them are strongly wrong perception. If you patient i will tell you all the truth.
Please except my apologize that i will continue my answer later on.
Warm regards my brother,
ALI SINA 4:
So you are saying that the Quran came from the chest of Uthman? We are told he just collected it and the Quran was revealed to Muhammad. If the Quran was coming out of his mouth, he should have used “this” not “that”. What about the verse 2:2 itself? Isn’t this verse part of the Quran? If it is then Muhammad was wrong using “that” pronoun.
The very fact that instead of “this” Muhammad referred to his book as “that” is a source of confusion. Assuming your explanation is correct, will you please tell us why all translators of the Quran have changed “that” to “this?” If the Quran book is so clear and with no doubt in it, as it claims, why the translators have felt the need to change the pronoun?
Also don’t forget to clarify the last question. Muhammad said the Quran is a guidance to the righteous. This is like writing on the package of a drug, “That medicine cures healthy people. There is no doubt in it.” No matter how you look at it, this verse is absurd and ridiculous. The Quran is full of absurdities.
ANSHAR RAHMAN 5:
November 12, 2014
Dear Mr. Ali Sina,
I am sorry for my late response due to was very busy several days a go. Let me continue my answer on the below.
Your last answered showing me that you are something like a hurry man. I hope i am mistake with this conjecture. Please read it carefully and kindly do not bend the straight please. Muhammad said “haste is including the works of the devil”. For the shake of the real truth that we are talking about, we should not be in hurry, we should one by one analyze the “case” that you believe is a wrong in Islam. If I can ask your wisdom, please do not reply this first with very long comments with so many subjects. Please focus to comment one case or two cases one by one. I like the focus of your last comment, only asking about “that”, “this” and “guidance to righteous” but like a boxer, you seems like begin to lose your way with just a straight punch from me of my last comment. You are not aware that all your comments of perception about Islam in your website are very bad in logical and far away from the real truth of Islam.
I would like to emphasize that the Quran was not came from the chest of Utsman. He was just one of the collectors of “recorded note” of real verses of the Quran. My suggestion, you should learn the history of Al Quran but more important is you should understand first what is verse and what is a real verse. For the next, you should understand what is Al Quran and what is Quran and what is the different between them. The recorded note of real verses were became Al Quran or “Quran Book” that firstly collected and printed completely by Utsman. The verses in Al Quran are the explanations about the real verses of Quran. They are the guidance to understand the real verses. Is this the first time you heard? You know now that there is a different between them. Please do not be a missing person anymore (smile).
This is just a preliminary explanation from me, should you intend to know more details, you should meet face to face with our oldest brother. I am nothing, compared to him. I will discuss this topic with you if I think it is just still an initial explanation. I will not tell you the core things because I am not in the position to discuss it. Frankly, I am afraid with verses 61: 2-3 “O you who have believed, why do you say what you do not do? Great is hatred in the sight of Allah that you say what you do not do.” And 28:50 “But if they do not respond to you – then know that they only follow their [own] carnal desires. And who is more astray than one who follows his carnal desire without guidance from Allah ? Indeed, Allah does not guide the wrong doing people”. My brother, I hope that you will not follow your carnality…..
As a parable just to make you understand, do you have a land certificate of your house? It issues by a Land Service Government in your city of your country. I think you know exactly what a land certificate is. Is the land exists inside the certificate? There is no land, right? The certificate is the explanation about the land, what kind of land status, how wide, where is location etc. So, the verses of the Al Quran are the explanation of the real verses of Quran. One of the verses that already sent by the God specifically to the earth surface to make apostate Muslims is the one a special person named Ali Sina (smile). You are one of the real verses my brother….
If I sitting as a speaker in front of you together with your friends and then I appoint into each chest of you all, while i say “Please ask your heart, is this explanation true or not? You have the heart, right? THAT heart will guidance you to the right direction”. And then, you are going to watch your heart. Suddenly there is an answer from him “Yes it is, what Anshar said is true!” There is no doubt. He speaks every time. One speaks a good things, another speaks bad things (later i will explain to you why both sides sometimes good sometimes bad). Our activities, our conversation, our watching, our hearing, even our thinking record everything by him. We are able to play back all recording and remember them. That is why the God naming it “KITAB” in translation can be “book” and can be “ record”
Please see 17:14 of Al Quran: “Read your record. Sufficient is yourself against you this Day as accountant.” You can see here that word Kitab was translated as “Record”. In verse 2:1 word Kitab was translated as “Book”. Some translator add word Al Quran in bracket after Book/Kitab. For example verse 2:2 “This is the Book (Al Quran) about which there is no doubt, a guidance for those conscious of Allah”. I do not know who ask them to liken the book and the Al Quran. They changed word ”That” to “This” because they think the book is the same with the Al Quran. In translation, they said “This” as if they hold physical Al Quran in left hand and appointed by right forefinger to it. Another possibility is they do not know exactly the subject of the verse 2:2 because they got all their knowledge from the school while all Messengers got this directly from the God without school. For sure, if you are a real truth seeker, I believe that you will meet with all the real truth of Islam.
For the answered regarding “righteous” in another words “conscious of Allah” or in Arabic “Taqwa”, you have made an untrue analogy. You said: This is like writing on the package of a drug, “ That medicine cures healthy people. There is no doubt in it.”. I just give you a short answered that if you are not the “Taqwa” man you still can use your book but you will doubt whether the guidance from your book is right or not. In another word, you do not know accurately whether the whisper from him is from the direction of the God or from the direction of the Satan? Please refer to your daily dialog with your book and please tell me just a little bit what his view about yourself when you started to apostate until now. I believe, there was a conflict in yourself (your heart) between the said agree and disagree (smile). On the contrary, if you the righteous one, you will get the guidance from the God for your life trough your book with no doubt. Verse 2:3 gives a category of Taqwa/righteous. There is a very good detail explanations about 2:3. It is very interesting but sorry to say that I am not able to explain you here.
I have asked you one question previously regarding verse 2:3 but you have not answered me yet. Word “Yu’minuna” same “’Amanu” same “Mukminun” means Believer. In another side there is word “Kafirun” means Unbeliever. This is not just an Arabic word that translates into English. There is something an object behind it. To fully understand we have to know on what is the object behind the word or behind the verse. If we only rely on translation, we really nothing compared to Arabian people because Arabic is their language. If we based on the object and we know exactly the object, even your eye is blind, you are able to clear understand the Al Quran when you hearing it. Therefore, which one the object of word yukminuna or mukminun? There are so many words believer and there are so many words unbeliever or disbeliever as well in Al Quran. Especially word unbeliever, some “terrorists” has been using this to claim their selves as the owner of the truth and kill anyone that percepted by them as the unbelievers. For a note: I do not want to use word terrorist because if I use it I also become one of them. Means, there will be so many terrorists in the world. Is the government of United State of America one of them that frequently claimed as the owner of the truth and invade other countries as opposed to war…? And are you also one of the terrorists my brother…? because you looks like the owner of the truth and stated others in error (Smile, this is just a kidding, please no hurt feeling). Who can claim their selves as the owner of the truth are only the God and all his Messengers (Auliya & Anbiaya).
You will be dubbed based on what you do or thyself be named for what you are doing. If you are plowing in the field, you called the farmer and after that you back to your home meet and give advising to your children, you will be called the father. If you are teaching in a classroom you are the teacher and then meet your wife to give your salary to her for a monthly expenditure, you are the husband. When you are angry, you are actually the Satan (devil). Remember in Al Quran, the Satan flows in our blood. When you use your carnal desire, automatically at that time you are the unbeliever (kafir). Everyone in the world having carnal desire in their body that there are four vices: desires, lust, carnal and devil. On the contrary, if you in a condition of use our original nature four virtues: Siddiq, amanah, tablig and fatanah (true , trustworthy , reminiscent of goodness and wise) actually you become as the beliver (Mukmin). All humankind in the world are having the original nature from the SAME God. My brother, this is just for example that every one having Siddiq (true) as a valuable asset for his life. Have you ever lied to your wife or to someone? I think so. You can lie many times to everyone but you are not able to lie to yourself. There is an admonition inside your heart says, “Hi Ali, you are lying!” There is a true in yourself but the true will be covered by the carnal desires that ensue from your own body without maintainability which required in verse 2:3 of the Al Quran.
Let see your statement the below from the beginning of our discussion:
I can already point out to two errors you made. You have a romanticized understanding of Islam and project on it attributes that it does not have.
You called me a brother. Although I am flattered, this is not how a Muslim should think of a non-Muslim let alone an apostate. Muhammad said, only Muslims are brothers to each other. In regards to non-believers he said, don’t take them as friends (awlia) they are friends of each other. “Whoever does this” the Quran 2:28 says “has no connection with Allah.” The same verse however allows Muslims to befriend non-Muslims only if they want to deceive them. Since I hope you don’t want to deceive me, your expression of friendship towards me is not supported by your holy book. If you are sincere about your friendship, then you can’t be a Muslim. Which you choose? Most Muslims choose Allah and as the result harbor an intense hatred of non-Muslims. Muslims must hate unbelievers if they want to love Allah. This doctrine is called al wala’ wal bara’ (love of Allah and hatred of others).
Once again, you are really in a wrong view on this case. You have referred to the Quran 2:28, but let me correct it that is not 2:28 but 3:28 “Let not the believers take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah: except by way of precaution, that ye may Guard yourselves from them. But Allah cautions you (To remember) Himself; for the final goal is to Allah.”
There are two key words in this verse: Believers (Mukmin) and Unbelievers (Kafir). From my explanation on the above you can adjust the answer of this case. The believer and the unbeliever are not outside but inside of your body.
Please see verse 64:2 of the Al Quran “It is He who created you, and among you is the disbeliever, and among you is the believer. And Allah , of what you do, is Seeing.” In this verse, “among you” is actually between you or between your single body. It is not “among you all”. Inside of your body there is the believer and there is the unbeliever. It is not appoint to outside but to inside of all of us, one by one body of the all humankind in the world; there is an infidel creates by the God from the beginning starting when your mother has a pregnancy. In another side there is a virtue creates by the God begins when He breathed the spirit (soul) into us in the mother’s womb. The infidel with our body will be back to cemetery and the virtue with spirit will back to the God when the time comes. Our body comes from our parents and the spirit comes from our God, from the same God!.
What is the evidence that the word unbeliever not appoint to outside? Please see 2:6 of the Al Quran: Indeed, those who disbelieve – it is all the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them – they will not believe. If we use this verse and have a perception that the unbeliever is outside (let say outside is a Christian), there will be no Christian apostate and move to Islam because you warn or not the Christian will not believe. In fact, there are so many Christian apostate and believe Islam. I have many evidences to show you that the unbeliever in Al Quran is not appoint to outside of our selves.
Last but not least, I hope you will get an understanding that the Al Quran is the guidance for all humankind in the world whether they professed as a Muslim or a Christian or even an Atheist as long as they have a body with a spirit (soul) inside. So, your claim on the wrong on the some verses of the Al Quran has been proved irrefutably.
My brother, I think this is enough from me at the moment. You can try to read the Al Quran based on the above perception. I am sure that you will read the Al Quran more interesting than before, especially the verses that related with the above explanation. I will respond another one later on when I have a time to write down. Actually face to face is better than discussion by writing like this because we have a time to have a “Silaturrahim” or to establish affection. Build the affection among us is preferred in Islam. Thank you for your attention
*ALI SINA based on Wikipedia:
Ali Sina (pseudonym) is an Iranian Canadian activist and strong critic of Islam who describes himself as an ex-Muslim. Founder of Faith Freedom International, which he describes as a grassroots movement of ex-Muslims.
Born and raised in Iran, educated in Italy and Pakistan, and now living in Canada, he began debating with people in the 1990s. What bothered him, he tells The Jerusalem Post, was not the penchant for jihad and intolerance that certain fanatical Muslims displayed, but the foundation for such ills in the Koran and core Islamic texts. The Jerusalem Post writes, “Sina, who runs Faith Freedom International – an Internet forum dedicated to debunking Islam – considers himself ‘probably the biggest anti-Islam person alive.’ His latest book is titled, Understanding Muhammad: A Psychobiography of Allah’s Prophet. In it, Sina suggests that Muhammad suffered from a series of mental disorders, including narcissistic personality disorder, temporal lobe epilepsy and obsessive compulsive disorder. “These disorders,” he says, “can explain the phenomenon known as Islam… which is nothing but one man’s insanity.”
AFTER ALMOST ONE AND HALF YEAR……
I sent the below email to him just to prove that he is a big liar when he promised the reward of US$ 50,000 + US$ 50,000….and PROVEN….
Dear Mr. Ali Sina,
After long time no news from you, I begin to not trust you. I wrote down to you all my contact numbers (Hanphones numbers and my Whatsapp) and you know my email address but there is no info from you even a single piece. It seems that you have a tendency to disappeard. 🙂 . I have tried to not prejudice to you when you said that your website http://www.alisina.org were hacked by someone as well as when you told me that all our files discussion were lost.
Now, I can say that you are not looking for the truth of Islam. You just want to win the battle as well as to win the war in order to combat Islam and Muhammad but unfortunately when you shuffle after our last battle, you forgot your aim….I was not so sure that you were not able to answer on my last response because you looks like very whiz. I did not expect that you scuttled and disappeared without a trace of a shadow. 🙂 . From my humble opinion, you are supposed to be a gentleman to face the fact that you have to pay for all of your haughtiness rather than hide away from defeat.
The basic foundation of your vile accusation to Muhammad had been refuted by me. It was reflected in a key paragraph in your book “Understanding Muhammad: A Psychobiography” as below:
There are many verses in the Qur’an that require clarification. “Slay the
unbelievers wherever you catch them.” (2:191) “Fight them, until
there is no moredissent and religion is that of Allâh” (2:193) “The vilest of animals in
Allâh’s sight are those who disbelieve.” (8:55) “I will instill terror into the hearts of the
unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their fingertips o
ff them.”(8:12) “Verily, the unbelievers are unclean.” (9:28), etc.
How can Muslims explain these verses? Aren’t these and many similar
Qur’anic teachings, responsible for Islamic violence? Most religions have had
violent past. Islam is the only religion that teaches violence in its holy book.
This is the main base of your argument so that you wrote a cruel fiction of defamation against Islam and Muhammad. You repeat these verses many times as well as you repeat in our discussion (our debate). From 1998 until now, You walk arrogantly on the earth’s surface to demonize Islam and Muhammad. You challenge all Muslims Scholars to debate against you.
At the end I have given you the irrefutable evidences that you were in a big wrong on perception about Islam and Muhammad. Another your big mistake was blaming Islam on the misdeeds of Muslims where ugliness was also done by people other than Muslims without seeking the real truth of Islam.
Maybe you run away so easily because you thought that you did not have to pay the reward of $50.000 + $50.000 since it was doubted by me at that time that you were just bluffing me and tricking others. But know i will force you to pay the reward with the following reasons:
1. I could not refuse the payment because there is somebody inviting and introducing me about Sina’s Challenge. S(He) has the rigth to get the money that promised by you.
2. Evidently, you getting a lot of money from donations of many peoples that wanted you to destroy Islam and I want those peoples paying the reward to me and to the inviter for their bad intention on Islam.
3. You have wasted my time in opening many times of my email in waiting for your say hello to me after your website hacked. You really disappeared with a very dark reason.
4. You asked all the files/documents that I have but you do not really want. You just pretend to want it. (You could not lie to me, all our correspondences are still inside your email inbox and your files inside your destop/laptop. You would not type the text of your answered to me directly in to the web because you should changed the word into HTML files first as you said. Means you have all the word files of your answered to me. You said all your files lost was just a sly reason).
5. When I read again your all insulting, you really very cruel to Islam and Muhammad.
6. Your website http://www.alisina.com is still alive eventhough there is no additional article but your announcement to challenge others for debate is still there (I have the picture of the page);
“I am really interested to hear from someone who has read my book and still wants to defend Islam. I offer $50,000 reward to anyone who can prove me wrong. With truth Islam will be demolished and my book does it irrefutably” Ali Sina.
7. Eventhough I could not accessed http://www.faithfreedom.com, but i can search that you still contibutes articles until now actively.
8. I am sorry to say that your are a biggest liar by not doing your promising for more than one year. You should remember this heroic sentence that you were telling me as if no body could beat you at that time;
“As for how to proceed, how about you tell us why we should believe in the claim
of Muhammad. You say he was a messenger of God. Is there any proof for such
an outlandish claim? If you can give any irrefutable evidence I will drop all the
charges and even accept Islam” – Ali Sina.
I will give you a very short time, just only until Friday April 22, 2016 to pay this reward. I purposely gave you a short time because actually I do not like to do this but due to your arrogance you deserve to be given a penalty. Maybe for you this is not a penalty because of a little amount of money but at least I have done my part to give you the fine. By paying the reward I will start to trust your good intension. Therefore I will give you a long time to realize and then to do the above promised smoothly. If you are not doing it, means you do not have a good intention indeed. I will publish in many websites that you are the biggest liar. I have formed a team to do this task. I have all the documents of our discussion (debate). I will put them to many websites with the note that you are the biggest liar and the biggest hypocrite in the world on this decade. So all peoples in the world will realized that you are a real biggest liar and a real biggest hypocrate. All of your fans includes all ex Muslims that apostate due to your provocations will start to look for your responsibility. I am not responsible for the possibility of their bad pressure to you. I think this is your consequence as the leader of the faith freedom movement.
Please transfer to my account (I will re-transfer to who had invited me on Sina’s Challenge) :
Bank Name: PT. Bank Negara Indonesia (Persero) Tbk
Address of the Bank: Jl. DR. Sam Ratulangi Makassar Indonesia
Account Name: Anshar Rahman
Account Number: 0437716530 – IDR
Swift Code: BNINIDJA
This account is showing to you and to others that I am a real man with a real name (It is not like you hiding your identity).
I am waiting for your good intention my brother (This will the last time I will call you as my brother if there is no change from you).
Thank you for your attention.
This is the response from Ali Sina. He still requested the files:
I told you to send me the files. I never received the debate we had and you claim you have them all. I am not going to waste my time with you until you send me our debate so i can republish them.
And then I sent him all the files………………
After that I chased him again with the below email just to prove that Ali Sina is the biggest liar:
Dear Mr. Ali Sina,
I am sure that you are in a very difficult situation now between realized and avoiding the realized on the Islam’s truth that i have delivered to you. You are in an inner conflict of your heart whether to admit defeat or persist because you have gone too far to step in the combat against Islam and Muhammad with your great conceit. Your problem is the realized would delete all your provocations about Islam and Muhammad. That is your risk to consider. In another side of your heart actually you are still looking for the real truth from the God. Unfortunately for almost one and half year you have not realized yet, instead you want to disappeared. You are the liar if you forget what I have said to you even though you said you lost all the files. I am sure, you are still remember all our discussion because of the understanding role of your “book/record” is undeniable.
With humility, believe me to consider that even if you turn a somerset to replace your head with your feet and your feet replaces your head and even though you collect a hundred professors to deny the truth of which I have conveyed to you, you will not be able to defeat. We have tried to do that and after months we finally gave up with submissive. This is not a vanity (I seek refuge with Allah from a conceit). Please consider that what I have told you was the real verse. You will not be able to make the verse of the like thereof because it relates to the creating of the human life (See Al Qur’an 2:23-24).
Now please ask your “book” slowly, hoping that your nature of the truth are still not covered totally by your carnal desires, and just follow what he says the first time desire without analisyng with your mind. This is actually the solution of world peace that If all human kind using their book as a consideration scale, there would be no hassle and war in the world.
I would like to tell you that I will very busy starting the beginning of the next month with my business. I am preparing it now. So I will not feel important to open my email address to answer any piece of reply debate from you. There will be no more debate anymore and there will be no more time for explanation of the truth personally if there is no change from you by realizing the Islam’s truth and starting to the drop the charges that you promised. I will not trust you for only a promise by verbal. The only way to see that you already starting it, is by paying the promised reward as your good intention.
I would like to give you the last ultimatum to show me your good intention just until:
After that I would like to say good bye for you forever. I do not want to have a communication with you anymore. I have spent so many time for you. I will give the task to my team just for IT work of publication. It is not for debate with you and to anyone and just write an additional comments if any important things. The team already asking me, can they publish and announce you as the biggest liar and the biggest hypocrite in the world of this decade? I said please give Ali Sina more time of only 3 (three) daylight from today to decide.
Do you have the last request Mr. Ali Sina? Or something like a bargaining to convince me that you do not have the money for reward? (big smile). I would like to give you the last chance to tell me before 4/26/2016.
Take care yourself,
This was his response:
Islam is a lie. You refused to send me the text of the debate for two years. Now I am busy. I am working on a new business and it is taking all my time. However, I will reply to you and will publish the debate.
Wow!!! Ali Sina is doing a new business now… I think his business is to make apostate Muslims? It is really glad to hear it. Thanks God….